Discussion:
Major shake-up suggests dinosaurs may have 'UK origin'
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Garrison Hilliard
2017-03-23 14:35:09 UTC
Permalink
By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News

The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
possibly in an area that is now Britain.

This is one of the conclusions of the first detailed re-evaluation of the
relationships between dinosaurs for 130 years.

It shows that the current theory of how dinosaurs evolved and where they
came from may well be wrong.

This major shake-up of dinosaur theory is published in this weeks's
edition of the journal Nature.

"We may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs
were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group itself could
have
originated on these shores" - Matthew Baron, Cambridge University

The reassessment shows that the meat eating beasts, such as Tyrannosaurus
rex and Velociraptor, have been wrongly classified in the dinosaur family
tree.

One of the implications is that dinosaurs first emerged 15 million years
earlier than previously believed.

And the fossil evidence suggests that this origin may have occurred
further north than current thinking suggests - possibly in an area that is
now the UK, according to the new study's lead author, Matthew Baron of
Cambridge University.

"The northern continents certainly played a much bigger role in dinosaur
evolution than we previously thought and dinosaurs may have originated in
the UK," he told BBC News.

The previous version of the dinosaur family tree was developed 130 years
ago by Harry Govier Seeley, a palaeontologist also working at Kings
College, London.

By comparing the size, shapes and arrangements of fossilised bones of
different species of dinosaurs and how they changed over time, he devised
a theory of how they were related and how they evolved.

He concluded that there were two main groups of dinosaurs: those whose hip
bones were like those of modern-day birds, which Seeley called
Ornithischia, and those whose hip bones were more reptile-like, which he
named Saurischia.

The bird-hipped group were all exclusively plant-eaters and included
familiar creatures such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops.

The lizard-hipped group had two branches: the plant-eaters, such as
Brontosaurus, and the meat-eaters, such as T. rex.

This organisation has been unchallenged until now.

In redrawing the relationships, researchers studied many more bones and
included more species, quite a few of which have been discovered only in
the past 30 years.

The team's analysis suggests that Seeley got it wrong.

The new approach argues for the meat-eaters, a group known as theropods,
to be moved into the same classification as the bird-hipped dinosaurs.
Fossil of SalltopusImage copyrightBBC NEWS
Image caption

This fossil found in Lossiemouth in Scotland is of a dinosaur the size of
a cat. It is now thought to be close to the base of the new dinosaur tree,
raising the possibility that these iconic creatures may have had their
origins in the UK

Cambridge's Prof David Norman, who supervised the study, said it
represented a major departure from past thinking.

"All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the
vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives
academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," he explained.

"It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come."
All the major text-books covering the topic of the evolution of the
dinosaurs will now need to be re-written
Prof David Norman, Cambrdige University

The reason that the Northern Hemisphere, and the UK in particular, has
become more likely to be the place for the emergence of the first
dinosaurs is the fact that two crucial fossils were found in Scotland and
England.

For decades they were dismissed as unimportant species, but following the
redrawing of the dinosaur tree they are now placed close to its base.

The Scottish and English finds suggest that it is now more likely that the
first dinosaurs emerged 245 million years ago in the northern part of the
planet on a land mass called Laurasia, rather than 230 million years ago
on a more southerly unit called Gondwana.

Matthew Baron said the results came as a "shock".

"A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest
dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
itself could have originated on these shores."

The researchers involved cautioned, though, that the fossil record for
early dinosaurs is so sparse that it would be difficult to make any firm
claims at this stage for their origins. But the team hopes that its
findings will spur palaeontologists to search for more fossil evidence to
back up the new ideas.

A challenge to one of main theories of dinosaur evolution is bound to be
controversial.

Now we have our new tree we can use it as a foundation to understand how
dinosaur features evolved
Prof Paul Barrett, Natural History Museum

Prof Hans Sues of the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC, US, said that
the findings had to be tested and corroborated.

"I am sceptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
results - but I keep an open mind," he told BBC News.

Prof Paul Barrett of London's Natural History Museum, who was involved in
the study and came up with the idea of testing Seeley's old theory, said
that the new family tree seemed more logical than the previous one.

"Now we have our evolutionary tree, we can use it as a foundation to
understand how dinosaur features evolved over time, and it is already
beginning to help us explain some questions that have puzzled us," he
added.

Among those questions is the fact that birds are thought to have evolved
from meat-eating dinosaurs. But under the old scheme, they were not in the
bird-hipped group.

The new tree fits more neatly with the observation that many meat-eating
species and bird-hipped dinosaurs had feathers. The fact that previously
they were in separate groups led some to speculate that all dinosaurs,
including the long-necked sauropods were feathered. But there has been no
fossil evidence for this, and it is a suggestion that never really took
hold.

The latest work also indicates that dinosaurs evolved into meat-eaters on
two separate occasions during their evolution and it even implies that the
very first dinosaur was omnivorous and therefore ate both plants and meat.
Dinosaur HipsImage copyrightDAVID NORMAN
Image caption

Up until now dinosaurs were either classified as bird-hipped or
Lizard-hipped

There was, however, one potentially disastrous consequence of the new
scheme.

It could have meant that the long-necked dinosaurs such Brontosaurus and
Diplodocus would not strictly speaking be classed as dinosaurs. But
anxious not to be known as the people who expelled the Natural History
Museum's emblematic Dippy the Diplodocus skeleton from the status of
dinosaur, Matt Baron and his fellow researchers carefully reworded the
definition.

"I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur. That would have created a lot
of upset. They are a very well known group and everyone has recognised
them to be dinosaurs. To be truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of
every conference I went to for the rest of my career."
Huxley's triumph

Mr Baron's new family tree has similarities to ideas developed by the
biologist Thomas Henry Huxley in 1870. He believed, correctly as it turns
out, that birds descended from meat-eating dinosaurs and he included them
then with the bird-hipped dinosaurs in a group he named Ornithoscelida, or
bird-limbed.

At the time Huxley's ideas were roundly dismissed and eclipsed by
Seeley's.

As an acknowledgement of Huxley's contribution, the team has revived the
name of Ornithoscelida for his new combined group.

As well as being a remarkable piece of research in itself, the work is a
vignette of the scientific process itself - how challenging old,
well-established ideas with a fresh eye is always worthwhile and can often
bring new insights.

"We've proved Huxley right," said Mr Baron. "We didn't pay any attention
to any of the dogma of the past 130 years. We tried to incorporate no
prior assumption and so we have pulled apart the tree and reassembled it
and have come up with solutions to questions that have been troubling
scientists for a very long time."


http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39305750
Garrison Hilliard
2017-03-24 12:55:18 UTC
Permalink
Scientists get 'hip' to major findings and a shakeup in the dinosaur
family tree (+video)

A newly proposed family tree aims to rewrite the history of some of the
most famous dinosaurs.

MARCH 23, 2017 The earliest dinosaurs may have roared with a British
accent, according to a new study.

And that’s the least of the fallout from a newly proposed dinosaur family
tree that upends and bulldozes the one that stood for the past 130 years.
If lead author Matthew Baron and his colleagues are correct, dinosaurs may
have emerged millions of years earlier than previously thought, and
A-listers such as Tyrannosaurus rex and Velociraptor may have been
misclassified. Oh, and the first dinosaurs could have come from England.

While genetic data gains ground as a method of determining how closely
living species are related, most dinosaur DNA decayed millions of years
ago, so scientists have to rely on the classic technique of comparing
physical features, such as the shapes of bones.

One such pivotal divide hinges on hip shape, which has long split
dinosaurs into two groups: those with hips like birds and those with hips
like lizards. The bird-hipped Ornithischia group was made up of mostly
plant eaters such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops, while the reptile-hipped
Saurischia group welcomed those of all diets, including the vegetarian
Brontosaurus and the carnivorous T. rex.

Mr. Baron’s new analysis, which draws on a much wider variety of samples
than what was available a century ago, concluded that the meat eaters were
out of place. It turns out that Ornithischia has always been a bit of a
wild card, with hips that have been described as “enigmatically
organized.” In the light of a number of new species discovered in just the
past 30 years, Baron suggests paleontologists should actually consider
those meat eaters to be members of the Ornithischia family.

This new place would resolve some longstanding mysteries, such as why many
meat eaters show birdlike features, such as feathers, despite also having
lizard-looking hips.

"It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come,"
Cambridge University’s David Norman, who supervised the study, told the
BBC.

And fruit is falling already. The reorganization places two fossils in
particular near the base of the new tree. These previously peripheral
species, originally unearthed in Scotland and England, now find themselves
in a role of central importance, suggesting that early dinosaurs first
evolved 245 million years ago in what is now the United Kingdom, rather
than 230 million years ago in today’s East Africa.

"A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest
dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
itself could have originated on these shores," explained Baron.

But Great Britain and Ireland were unrecognizable back then. Part of the
supercontinent Laurasia, they were crammed together with what is now North
America and Eurasia into one giant landmass after the breakup of Pangea.
This finding contradicts the established model, which proposes that
dinosaurs emerged on the southerly supercontinent of Gondwana, which would
go on to become South America, Africa, Australia, and New Zealand.

The new tree has plenty of critics as well. Hans Sues of the Smithsonian
Museum in Washington, D.C., told the BBC that extraordinary claims require
extraordinary evidence.

"I am skeptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
results but I keep an open mind," he said.

Those involved with the study agree that such a huge claim needs
independent verification.

"All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the
vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives
academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," Dr. Norman said.

The team points out that the early dinosaur fossil record is quite thin,
but hopes future discoveries will bear out their proposals.

The new classification did feature at least two prominent casualties.
Under the updated tree, old favorites such as Brontosaurus and Diplodocus
could no longer technically be called dinosaurs.

Perhaps learning from the public outcry over Pluto’s loss of status as a
planet, Baron and his team carefully redefined their usage of the term
"dinosaur" to avoid angering dino-fans.

"I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur," said Baron, referring to the
beloved Diplodocus skeleton in the lobby of London’s Natural History
Museum. "That would have created a lot of upset. They are a very well
known group and everyone has recognised them to be dinosaurs. To be
truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of every conference I went to for
the rest of my career."

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2017/0323/Scientists-get-hip-to-major-findings-and-a-shakeup-in-the-dinosaur-family-tree-video
Rick Moen
2017-03-24 13:14:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Garrison Hilliard
By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News
The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
possibly in an area that is now Britain.
[insert joke about the House of Lords here]
Dale Sharp
2017-03-24 13:18:19 UTC
Permalink
One thought: Piltdown saurid.
Dale
Major shake-up suggests dinosaurs may have 'UK origin'
By Pallab Ghosh
Science correspondent, BBC News
The first dinosaurs may have originated in the Northern Hemisphere,
possibly in an area that is now Britain.
This is one of the conclusions of the first detailed re-evaluation of the
relationships between dinosaurs for 130 years.
It shows that the current theory of how dinosaurs evolved and where they
came from may well be wrong.
This major shake-up of dinosaur theory is published in this weeks's
edition of the journal Nature.
"We may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest dinosaurs
were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group itself could
have
originated on these shores" - Matthew Baron, Cambridge University
The reassessment shows that the meat eating beasts, such as Tyrannosaurus
rex and Velociraptor, have been wrongly classified in the dinosaur family
tree.
One of the implications is that dinosaurs first emerged 15 million years
earlier than previously believed.
And the fossil evidence suggests that this origin may have occurred
further north than current thinking suggests - possibly in an area that is
now the UK, according to the new study's lead author, Matthew Baron of
Cambridge University.
"The northern continents certainly played a much bigger role in dinosaur
evolution than we previously thought and dinosaurs may have originated in
the UK," he told BBC News.
The previous version of the dinosaur family tree was developed 130 years
ago by Harry Govier Seeley, a palaeontologist also working at Kings
College, London.
By comparing the size, shapes and arrangements of fossilised bones of
different species of dinosaurs and how they changed over time, he devised
a theory of how they were related and how they evolved.
He concluded that there were two main groups of dinosaurs: those whose hip
bones were like those of modern-day birds, which Seeley called
Ornithischia, and those whose hip bones were more reptile-like, which he
named Saurischia.
The bird-hipped group were all exclusively plant-eaters and included
familiar creatures such as Stegosaurus and Triceratops.
The lizard-hipped group had two branches: the plant-eaters, such as
Brontosaurus, and the meat-eaters, such as T. rex.
This organisation has been unchallenged until now.
In redrawing the relationships, researchers studied many more bones and
included more species, quite a few of which have been discovered only in
the past 30 years.
The team's analysis suggests that Seeley got it wrong.
The new approach argues for the meat-eaters, a group known as theropods,
to be moved into the same classification as the bird-hipped dinosaurs.
Fossil of SalltopusImage copyrightBBC NEWS
Image caption
This fossil found in Lossiemouth in Scotland is of a dinosaur the size of
a cat. It is now thought to be close to the base of the new dinosaur tree,
raising the possibility that these iconic creatures may have had their
origins in the UK
Cambridge's Prof David Norman, who supervised the study, said it
represented a major departure from past thinking.
"All the major textbooks covering the topic of the evolution of the
vertebrates will now need to be re-written if this suggestion survives
academic scrutiny and becomes accepted more widely," he explained.
"It seems that the dinosaur family tree is being shaken quite firmly. It
will be interesting to see what drops from its branches in years to come."
All the major text-books covering the topic of the evolution of the
dinosaurs will now need to be re-written
Prof David Norman, Cambrdige University
The reason that the Northern Hemisphere, and the UK in particular, has
become more likely to be the place for the emergence of the first
dinosaurs is the fact that two crucial fossils were found in Scotland and
England.
For decades they were dismissed as unimportant species, but following the
redrawing of the dinosaur tree they are now placed close to its base.
The Scottish and English finds suggest that it is now more likely that the
first dinosaurs emerged 245 million years ago in the northern part of the
planet on a land mass called Laurasia, rather than 230 million years ago
on a more southerly unit called Gondwana.
Matthew Baron said the results came as a "shock".
"A British scientist, Sir Richard Owen, gave the word dinosaur to the
world. Now we may be looking at the possibility that the very earliest
dinosaurs were roaming an area that has become Britain and the group
itself could have originated on these shores."
The researchers involved cautioned, though, that the fossil record for
early dinosaurs is so sparse that it would be difficult to make any firm
claims at this stage for their origins. But the team hopes that its
findings will spur palaeontologists to search for more fossil evidence to
back up the new ideas.
A challenge to one of main theories of dinosaur evolution is bound to be
controversial.
Now we have our new tree we can use it as a foundation to understand how
dinosaur features evolved
Prof Paul Barrett, Natural History Museum
Prof Hans Sues of the Smithsonian Museum in Washington DC, US, said that
the findings had to be tested and corroborated.
"I am sceptical as none of the other recent analyses obtained similar
results - but I keep an open mind," he told BBC News.
Prof Paul Barrett of London's Natural History Museum, who was involved in
the study and came up with the idea of testing Seeley's old theory, said
that the new family tree seemed more logical than the previous one.
"Now we have our evolutionary tree, we can use it as a foundation to
understand how dinosaur features evolved over time, and it is already
beginning to help us explain some questions that have puzzled us," he
added.
Among those questions is the fact that birds are thought to have evolved
from meat-eating dinosaurs. But under the old scheme, they were not in the
bird-hipped group.
The new tree fits more neatly with the observation that many meat-eating
species and bird-hipped dinosaurs had feathers. The fact that previously
they were in separate groups led some to speculate that all dinosaurs,
including the long-necked sauropods were feathered. But there has been no
fossil evidence for this, and it is a suggestion that never really took
hold.
The latest work also indicates that dinosaurs evolved into meat-eaters on
two separate occasions during their evolution and it even implies that the
very first dinosaur was omnivorous and therefore ate both plants and meat.
Dinosaur HipsImage copyrightDAVID NORMAN
Image caption
Up until now dinosaurs were either classified as bird-hipped or
Lizard-hipped
There was, however, one potentially disastrous consequence of the new
scheme.
It could have meant that the long-necked dinosaurs such Brontosaurus and
Diplodocus would not strictly speaking be classed as dinosaurs. But
anxious not to be known as the people who expelled the Natural History
Museum's emblematic Dippy the Diplodocus skeleton from the status of
dinosaur, Matt Baron and his fellow researchers carefully reworded the
definition.
"I didn't want to make Dippy not a dinosaur. That would have created a lot
of upset. They are a very well known group and everyone has recognised
them to be dinosaurs. To be truthful, I didn't want to be chased out of
every conference I went to for the rest of my career."
Huxley's triumph
Mr Baron's new family tree has similarities to ideas developed by the
biologist Thomas Henry Huxley in 1870. He believed, correctly as it turns
out, that birds descended from meat-eating dinosaurs and he included them
then with the bird-hipped dinosaurs in a group he named Ornithoscelida, or
bird-limbed.
At the time Huxley's ideas were roundly dismissed and eclipsed by
Seeley's.
As an acknowledgement of Huxley's contribution, the team has revived the
name of Ornithoscelida for his new combined group.
As well as being a remarkable piece of research in itself, the work is a
vignette of the scientific process itself - how challenging old,
well-established ideas with a fresh eye is always worthwhile and can often
bring new insights.
"We've proved Huxley right," said Mr Baron. "We didn't pay any attention
to any of the dogma of the past 130 years. We tried to incorporate no
prior assumption and so we have pulled apart the tree and reassembled it
and have come up with solutions to questions that have been troubling
scientists for a very long time."
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39305750
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